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October '03
Well, folks, it's here. I got my editorial letter from Ron today by e-mail. It will also arrive by post tomorrow along with the marked-up manuscript. And hi-ho! it's back to work I go.
Ron did a really thorough job -- he sent me some general comments and about eleven pages of specific notes to address. It was immensely helpful that he was able to read the final books in the series before tackling The Road to the Dark Tower.
His fundamental comment is that there are a dozen solid chapters, but now we have to turn them into a solid book. I had treated each chapter as a standalone entity, which meant that a lot of material got repeated when it came up in different places. My primary job is to decide which is the best place to mention certain things and then clean up the repetition in other places. He also thought I put some of my most interesting material in the footnotes and wants to see a lot of it elevated into the main text.
I also still have to put in the changes that arose from King's rewrites to Wolves of the Calla and I'm still waiting for revisions to The Dark Tower.
He didn't hate it!
Author: DTUK
Good news, Bev
The hardest hurdle, the wait for acceptance of that which you have created and waited for a reaction for is over, and you have seen with the adjustments made, you have created something good that a Publisher is interested in printing.
Well done
Author: Bev Vincent
I spent the weekend working on revisions. On my first pass, I went through the manuscript and corrected the simple typos and missing or extra words that my editor had marked. I used a yellow highlighter to mark them off in the manuscript so if I missed any -- and I did -- I'd notice them on my next pass through.
The next thing I did was go through the chapter on Wolves of the Calla and implement the changes I'd noticed between the original manuscript and the review copy I read after I turned the manuscript in.
Then I started tackling the editorial changes. A lot of it amounts to cutting sections that were repetitious and redistributing information to more appropriate parts of the manuscript. In depth character information that I used in book chapters I moved to the character study chapters. Similarly info about publication that crept into the book chapters I moved to the publication history chapter. It's making the book more consistent throughout and it's also letting me cut huge chunks -- pages at a time in some instances.
I also picked up some of the info from endnotes and brought it into more conspicuous position in the main manuscript. Sometimes that was just a cut-and-paste operation, but often I had to look for the optimal place for this info, which wasn't always where the endnote reference occurred.
This is fun!
I got as far as the chapter on Wolves of the Calla by the time I stopped last night. About half way through the manuscript.
Once I get done with those changes, I plan to print the manuscript out and go through it again, but I also want to try to squeeze in another quick reread of the series if I can, to see if I can pick up anything new that I missed on previous readings. My editor had a few very interesting suggestions for links or significance of certain details that I am working in, too.
I'm hoping the revised version of DT7 will be ready before I turn my revisions in, too, but I haven't heard back on that yet.
Author: Bev Vincent
Worked my way through another chapter this morning, but I got caught up in the Red Sox game last night and didn't get any work done. I think by the end of the coming long weekend I should be done working my way through my editor's list. Then it will be time to print it all out and take a look at the big picture instead of the minutia.
Author: Bev Vincent
I'm all but done with the first round of corrections and changes based on my editor's comments. The next step, I think, is to print the whole thing out again and look at the big picture. I'm also rereading Black House at the same time to make sure I've caught everything in that book -- there's a lot in it and I don't want to treat it too superficially. My editor and I have had some interesting exchanges back and forth about certain details in the books, especially the ending. He's the only person I can talk to about all this! I'm glad he's a fan of the series and has given it the same deep consideration I have. We don't agree on all of our interpretations, but that's fine with both of us. A different perspective is useful and I've incorporated some of his thoughts as well as mine to broaden things a little.
I really look forward to November '04, not only for publication, but so the discussion can begin at large and at length about the entire series.
Ron did a really thorough job -- he sent me some general comments and about eleven pages of specific notes to address. It was immensely helpful that he was able to read the final books in the series before tackling The Road to the Dark Tower.
His fundamental comment is that there are a dozen solid chapters, but now we have to turn them into a solid book. I had treated each chapter as a standalone entity, which meant that a lot of material got repeated when it came up in different places. My primary job is to decide which is the best place to mention certain things and then clean up the repetition in other places. He also thought I put some of my most interesting material in the footnotes and wants to see a lot of it elevated into the main text.
I also still have to put in the changes that arose from King's rewrites to Wolves of the Calla and I'm still waiting for revisions to The Dark Tower.
He didn't hate it!
Author: DTUK
Good news, Bev
The hardest hurdle, the wait for acceptance of that which you have created and waited for a reaction for is over, and you have seen with the adjustments made, you have created something good that a Publisher is interested in printing.
Well done
Author: Bev Vincent
I spent the weekend working on revisions. On my first pass, I went through the manuscript and corrected the simple typos and missing or extra words that my editor had marked. I used a yellow highlighter to mark them off in the manuscript so if I missed any -- and I did -- I'd notice them on my next pass through.
The next thing I did was go through the chapter on Wolves of the Calla and implement the changes I'd noticed between the original manuscript and the review copy I read after I turned the manuscript in.
Then I started tackling the editorial changes. A lot of it amounts to cutting sections that were repetitious and redistributing information to more appropriate parts of the manuscript. In depth character information that I used in book chapters I moved to the character study chapters. Similarly info about publication that crept into the book chapters I moved to the publication history chapter. It's making the book more consistent throughout and it's also letting me cut huge chunks -- pages at a time in some instances.
I also picked up some of the info from endnotes and brought it into more conspicuous position in the main manuscript. Sometimes that was just a cut-and-paste operation, but often I had to look for the optimal place for this info, which wasn't always where the endnote reference occurred.
This is fun!
I got as far as the chapter on Wolves of the Calla by the time I stopped last night. About half way through the manuscript.
Once I get done with those changes, I plan to print the manuscript out and go through it again, but I also want to try to squeeze in another quick reread of the series if I can, to see if I can pick up anything new that I missed on previous readings. My editor had a few very interesting suggestions for links or significance of certain details that I am working in, too.
I'm hoping the revised version of DT7 will be ready before I turn my revisions in, too, but I haven't heard back on that yet.
Author: Bev Vincent
Worked my way through another chapter this morning, but I got caught up in the Red Sox game last night and didn't get any work done. I think by the end of the coming long weekend I should be done working my way through my editor's list. Then it will be time to print it all out and take a look at the big picture instead of the minutia.
Author: Bev Vincent
I'm all but done with the first round of corrections and changes based on my editor's comments. The next step, I think, is to print the whole thing out again and look at the big picture. I'm also rereading Black House at the same time to make sure I've caught everything in that book -- there's a lot in it and I don't want to treat it too superficially. My editor and I have had some interesting exchanges back and forth about certain details in the books, especially the ending. He's the only person I can talk to about all this! I'm glad he's a fan of the series and has given it the same deep consideration I have. We don't agree on all of our interpretations, but that's fine with both of us. A different perspective is useful and I've incorporated some of his thoughts as well as mine to broaden things a little.
I really look forward to November '04, not only for publication, but so the discussion can begin at large and at length about the entire series.
Comments
I feel like an idiot asking you this, Bev. But did you catch the Rose Red reference in Black House?
Author: Bev Vincent
Yes, but I'm not actually going fishing for all those sorts of references. I'm sticking to the ones that really contribute to the Dark Tower mythos directly. There's already a book (Stephen King Universe) that does a pretty good job of hunting down the majority of the interlinks among books.
Author: Bev Vincent
The dreaded question came up from my editor today -- what is my estimated word count? He has a design meeting coming up and they need to estimate the number of pages in the book. I took a deep breath and broke the news to him via e-mail: 130K including endnotes. Now I wait with bated breath until I hear back from him. I thought I might have dodged the bullet already on this one when the matter didn't come up in his editorial letter but now I have to wait to see what word comes down from the design meeting to see if they're going to ask me to cut. ~0
Author: Rache4173
OMG... ~0
Okay Bev, explain it to the naive non-writer. How many words (average) per page? I know that it's front and back count as two separate pages... so... how big would this book be if they accepted that count??
Author: Bev Vincent
It actually depends on a lot of things that are controlled in the design process. Take Wizard and Glass, for example. When it was published by Grant it was over 780 pages but when Viking reissued it this summer in hardcover it was barely 700 pages. My manuscript is about 380 pages long in Times font but would be probably 450 in Courier (monospace) font. King's Bag of Bones was about 200,000 words, which comes in at 544 pages in hardcover and 750 pages of paperback.
Author: Rache4173
Ahhh... not bad at all then! Safe to attempt to read without people looking at you like you're crazy. %)
Author: Bev Vincent
The good news is -- my editor wasn't freaked out by the word count. That doesn't mean there still won't be cuts after I submit the next draft, but for the time being he wants me to proceed with the current revisions and we'll cross the page count size in the next round.
The other good news is -- I'm gonna have some revelations in this book that are going to knock your socks off if you are a Dark Tower fan, things that have just recently come to light. Wish I could say more...but you'll just have to read the book!
Author: CRinVA
Revelations to knock our socks off!
Now doesn't your book come out after DT 7, which in case we will have finished the series?
Author: Bev Vincent
Yes -- but I have revelations that will knock the socks off anyone who HAS read all seven books -- and all the related books, too!
Author: dan
As someone who has never written anything longer than a short story, how do you estimate a word count? Is that something a Word program can figure out for you?
Go Red Sox!
Author: Bev Vincent
Yes, in Word there's a tool that does a rigorous word count. However, in the “old days” what you would do is count the words on a couple of representative pages and figure out what the average was. In Courier font with 1” margins doublespaced you get about 250-300 words per page.
Author: DTUK
The longer the book and more info the better
Remember you have to cram into one book 7 novels, so think you have done amazingly well keeping it that short to start with...
Author: Bev Vincent
My editor said he'd propose a book length of 416 pages and we'll see how it comes out in the wash.
I finished my re-read of Black House on Friday and entered in my four hand-scrawled list of changes on Saturday before tackling Wolves of the Calla again. I plan to reread the last three books this one last time before finalizing my edits. I keep picking up little things to toss in -- things that get increasingly subtle but more significant each time through. Parallels and similarities. I got almost halfway through Wolves and hope to be almost done my reread by the end of the coming weekend.
On a vaguely related note, it looks like I'll probably be going to the National Book Award banquet next month to see SK get his medal. Who-hee!
Author: Rache4173
Bev...you need a date, right??
Author: Bev Vincent
I'm going stag -- my wife is working.
At $1000 a plate,
it'd be an expensive date!
Author: Rache4173
oooookay... you just go stag then. That's a weee bit steep for my budget!! ~0
Author: Rache4173
Hey wait a sec... if I don't eat... technically I wouldn't have a “plate”...
Would I still have to pay?
Author: Bev Vincent
Afraid so -- you have to rent the chair at the table for the evening, even if you don't sit in it. ~0
Author: DTUK
Pics
And a BIG OMG ~0 on the price, heck am sure can find a hall and charge alot less to host the evening...lol
Author: Bev Vincent
85% of the price is a charitable donation to the foundation and thus tax deductible.
And I'll do my best re pics but no promises. I often carry a camera and completely forget to take photos!
Author: r1Pped
Then write 'MUST TAKE PHOTOS!' on the back of your hand
ok you may have to write it up your arm a bit oo.. but still
Author: Bev Vincent
I'll do my best. I promise!
Author: Bev Vincent
I finished my reread of Song of Susannah this morning. Tomorrow I plan to edit my notes for Books V and VII into my manuscript and then take on the mammoth task of rereading The Dark Tower, which weighs in at 1100 manuscript pages! And I'll have to do it again sometime in the next few months when I get the final edited version of the manuscript.
My goal is to have my own edited manuscript on its way back to New York before I leave for the National Book Awards.
Author: Original Torch
As I read that last post I detect a sigh. ~0 You had better not be sighing Bev. There are a couple people you could find around here that would be more than happy to read those books. Even 5 times.
Torch.
Author: DTUK
That's true enough, OT, though I tend to spread re-reads apart by a year or two, though I must admit I have read 'Salem's Lot, around 16 times now
Author: Bev Vincent
Maybe a bit of a sigh. That 1100 page stack of paper is a bit daunting! But I got through over 600 pages of it this weekend. Boy, is this book ever good. The best by far.
Author: Jolycu
Bev, do you ever get just a little bit of a thrill knowing something very few other people know? Do you ever feel like going “Na-nah-na-nah-na-nah, I know how it ends and you don't!”
Author: Bev Vincent
Well, I certainly do feel honored that I've gotten the chance to read the books this soon, but I have only one other person I can talk with about them right now, so it's a little hard. I'm not even sure I can discuss Wolves of the Calla freely because the last three books flow together so closely in my mind that I want to make sure I don't accidentally say too much.
Right now I'm on the last legs of the Dark Tower -- read another 200 pages last night and this morning so I have less than 200 left to go.
(I know how it ends!!
Author: WmAnthony
Congratulations on reaching this step of your publishing dream...or should I say nightmare. Now the real writing begins, paring away!!!! I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of revising; it's integral, but not the best part of writing, for me.
It's funny I have been thinking a lot about you lately, given that the last time I spoke with you a deadline was looming.
Anyway: Go at it, Bev! Again, congratulations. I can hardly wait to buy an autographed copy.
Hi, Anthony -- good to see you here.
It seems like all of a sudden my writing life is full of deadlines. I can't complain about that. It's pretty cool, and so far I seem to be able to keep up with them without interfering with the rest of life too much.
What really helps with the revising is that my editor has a pretty clear vision of what the overall shape of the book should be and he's given some valuable feedback to show me what needs to be done and where. He's helping me make it a better book. I suspect there'll be at least one more round of revisions after this one, and then the next phase of the fun begins.
Hope you come back again!
Author: Bev Vincent
I turned over the last page of the Dark Tower last night. At the end of the reread I had ten pages of hand-scrawled notes that I now have to address in the manuscript. Some of them are just little jots of details that I noticed (some of them I'd caught previously but didn't remember that I had) and some of them are ideas for sidebars. I'm planning to have one sidebar in each chapter. A sidebar is sort of like an aside, a block of text that's out of the flow of the main “narrative,” so to speak, that explores in some depth some little facet of the series. I can't think of an example to give you right now without risking leaking spoilers, but I'm excited by these little side trails. They're fun!
Some of the things I picked up, though, are really cool and add some depth to my discussion. I keep thinking that there are many more of these literary references that I'm still missing, that I could mine them for the rest of my days.
Author: CRinVA
Bev,
Your talking like in 2010 there will be an updated [/i]Road to the Dark Tower[/i] with as yet new revelations and references to ponder over! ~0
It sure sounds like you're having fun on this adventure. I know I am just gleaning what little I can out of these message trails!
Author: Bev Vincent
Well, I hadn't thought about doing a revised edition five years down the road, but I suppose that's a possibility, especially if some errors come to light in the text that beg to be fixed. (I caught one of these a couple of days ago when I said that Roland took the cops' guns at the end of Drawing of the Three back with him for Eddie and Odetta. He intended them for that purpose, but he didn't actually take the guns, only the bullets and Keflex).
The depth of literary influence on these books never ceases to amaze me. Every now and then I'll see a sentence or a phrase and wonder, “Where did that come from?” So I'll do the research and realize that this quote or reference is a very significant literary allusion that adds a lot of resonance to the passage and the series in general. It's a little like archaeology crossed with detective work.
Author: Original Torch
Big Mac and large fries my ass.
You dog SK.
Author: kinbote
All I can say, as an insignificant member of the publishing world, is stick to your guns when you get your book as you want it in final form. If they balk at page count, tell them to use a slightly smaller font and tighter leading. I'm not kidding! Publishers do a lot with font size and leading. Don't let them take any of your important ideas and literary allusions and cut them out for “page count” issues. I swear, they worry about page count like they're trying to save the rain forests. Please! They're out there to publish the best books they can, and I know every one of us frequenting this Web site (even those of us who mostly lurk . . . like me) wants to read your *whole* book.
By the way, when will TRTTDT be available for preorder on Amazon.com? I think you've answered this before, but I'm ready to preorder whenever it goes into their database, so would you be so kind as to repeat yourself?
Author: keeproductions
Original Torch-
My sentiments exactly!
Well said.
Keith
Thanks for the advice, kinebote. The book will be definitely available for preorder on Amazon, but since it doesn't come out for a year (a year from tomorrow, actually!) I expect it will be quite a while before that happens. I'm still working on revisions and my be doing so for another few months since I still have to get King's changes to DT7 and the next report from my editor.
Have no fear, when it's ready for preorder I'll be spreading the news all over the place. I'll have some other interesting news for collectors as the publication date approaches, but I'm going to keep mum about that for now except to tease y'all slightly!
Author: keeproductions
Bev-
I can honestly say, that other than reading the final book in the series, I am really looking forward to reading your book. I can only speculate at this point what sort of metauniverse SK has in store for us by the end of book 7. But once I know, I am really looking forward to reading your take on how it all comes together.
I want to see what I may have missed, what you and I agree on, and even where I think you're completely off your rocker!!!!
Keith
Author: Bev Vincent
Oh, I have no doubt that some people will take issue with some of my views, and I welcome that. From a Buick 8 taught us that for some questions there are no answers, only more questions and it is exactly that sort of discussion that I hope to engender with this book. I have a certain take on particular things, but others may disagree and, yes, they may think I'm completely off my rocker! Cool!
I finished making changes last night based on the ten pages of notes I made from my reread of The Dark Tower and this morning I did one more sidebar piece that I'm very pleased with. It has a neat circularity to it, the way the end of the mini-essay wraps around and readdresses the question posted in the first paragraph. I like it when that happens!
So, what's next? I'm gonna reread the revised Gunslinger and then tackle my book from beginning to end in its electronic form, then I'll print it out and tackle it with my dreaded red pen for one final sweeping pass before I resubmit it to my editor.
A year from tomorrow, it should be published!
Author: Brautigan
Keeping mum is OK, ya big jerk. Just make sure us loyal posters & fans get a good crack at whatever it is.
Author: Bev Vincent
Absolutely!
Author: dan
I saw this on the DTyahoo board, thought it was a good question. Sorry if this is not the right part of the message board to bring up this subject.
Does it matter to DT5-7 if the reader has NOT read Salem's Lot? Is it okay if you have a general idea of what happens, who Father Callahan is, etc. or is a full read of the book in order?
I tried to read it 5 years ago, have never got into it, really. (my bad...) but I did talk to people about it enough to know the story.
Thanks in advance.
Author: Bev Vincent
being familiar with Salem's Lot might provide you with some additional understanding of what happens with Callahan, most of the important deatails of his experience in that town are related in Wolves of the Calla, so you should be okay.